Major Reed Problems

piob_jadis · Post by **piob_jadis** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:09 pm

I'm getting ready for a competition in a few weekends and having a lot of trouble with my reeds (Warnock and Ross). Invariably the high A and high G are flat, and no amount of moving up or down or shaving has helped.

Any suggestions would be wonderful! Is there another way to shave the reeds for this problem, or a corresponding note to tape?

I'm living overseas with no instructor, which makes things more difficult as well. An order of reeds should arrive soon, but I'd like to get these working.
Thanks!

Greg_in_London · Post by **Greg_in_London** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:50 am

Sorry if I ask something basic, but I've no idea how long you've been playing for or anything.

When you say that pushing the reed into the chanter (moving it up or down) makes no difference, do you mean that it makes no difference when compared with the lower hand (low a, for exmple) or that it does not get you to a pitch that you are aiming for on an electronic tuner ?

If you push the reed in (so it goes further in, not just pushing it and it not moving) then the pitch on theupper hand should sharpen compared with the lower hand. Or putting it another way, all notes will sharpen, but the higher notes will be affected more.
This should happen unless there is some other mismatch with the reed/chanter or the bore is VERY badly clogged (I''ve never had this).

If you are aiming at a particular pitch you might need to manipulate the reed to get it, but why im at a pitch if you are playing solo ? Just tune to the chanter itself.

I'm presumng of course that the reed is sitting tightly in the seat each time.

If the above doesn't help, then we ned more explanation from you. Don't let it afect your practicing for the competition, though. If not before, I'm sure there'll be help available at the competition, just be careful who you let actually touch the chanter reed !

piob_jadis · Post by **piob_jadis** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:50 pm

Thank you for your response! By 'moving the reed down' I did mean lowering its position in the chanter, and though it did not cure the problem I will keep experimenting.
I'm tuning just to the chanter, by ear and without a tuner.

Greg_in_London · Post by **Greg_in_London** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:48 pm

Now please be aware I'm not a reedmaker or any sort of expert, I'm just kicking a few ideas around to see how they work. I'm also assuming that it's really dry and hot where you are, which could mean that your reed experience will be different to mine.

Having said that, it it just the high A and G that are flat ? What about the E (and more commonly problematic) F ?
I take it that you are reaching full pressure it and that the pitch won't rise with a little more pressure (and doesn't rise or fall as you play).

From your post I assume that you have a number of reeds. What happens if you take off a little hemp and push the reed right in. Can you manage to achieve a sharp high A or G ? If you can't then it might be a clue to the problem.
[Mind you, given that you're listening for a disharmony between the chanter and drones, personally I can only tell that they're out. I can't tell which way. Without a tuner, I had to retune the drones to the upper or the lower hand and tell which was sharp/flat by looking at whether I had extended or shortened the drones.]

And to help any other posters:
What chanter are you using ? Plastic or ABW ? How old is it and have any holes been carved ?

piob_jadis · Post by **piob_jadis** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:09 am

I am using plastic Gibson and Warnock chanters, alternating to see if it changes anything. I have never carved either of them.
I have two working reeds (Ross) at the moment, both have the same problem.

It is extremely hot here, but humid outside - however, I pipe inside where the AC gets very dry.

What I have already been trying this whole time is taking hemp off the reeds so they sit lower, and it has affected these two note little. I can tell positively that the high A (sometimes only the high G) are flat and not sharp. Sharp would be easy to take care of

Something that would help is if someone has a lot of experience with reed shaving and could tell me where and how much on the reed I can shave, as I have been in classes before where specific places affected specific notes, but I never drew diagrams (and of course forgot

)

I've been playing for 6 years and compete in Grade II, but tuning is definitely my weakest point!
Thanks for all your time!

cid68piper · Post by **cid68piper** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:22 am

When you say high A is flat I assume you mean when you are trying to get a correct A octave and the drones are tuned to low A then high A is flat when sounded against the drones. If so, try this.

Start over. Make sure the chanter throat is not obstructed.
Remove the chanter reed and make sure it is correctly hemped, prefereably with waxed hemp.
Hydrate the chanter reed. Pipe chanter need moisture up front for best results. Don't play a dry reed.
Seat the reed firmly but not too deep in the chanter. Many pipers are in the bad habit of trying to cram the reed in to the maximum. Chanter reeds give best results when they can ride relatively high. For example, I play a Ross ridge cut reed in a MacCallum poly chanter and if I measure the length of the reed from the chanter opening to the top of the blades it is about 28 mm. Just a reference FYI.
Blow up the pipe and tune the outside tenor to low A. Then with the chanter sounding tune the bass drone to the tenor--not to low A--ignore the chanter sound at this point. Here you might as well plug the middle tenor for the time being. You will be better able to hear the chanter against the outside tenor and the bass if the mid. tenor is stopped.
Here I would play for 8 to 10 minutes and just bear with the sound. This will give the chanter reed time to heat up, absorb some more moisture and relax.
Now, re-tune to low A as above. The reed has sharpened so the drone tops will come down on the pins. Sound high A against the tuned tenor and bass. If there is the wavering sound, increase blowing pressure slightly and if the wavering lessens or goes away then you have a flat high A.
At this point I would probably push the reed down in the seat just a bit then re-tune and see if I still had a flat high A. If so, I would put a bit of tape on low A and re-tune. The octave should be closer as low A is flatter.
Now, it is a matter of moving tape and possibly the reed a bit to see what happens. I would not want to tape more than about a third max of low A.
Once you have the octave pretty accurate it is just a matter of listening to the other notes against the drones and hoping if any are out they are sharp, in which case you know what to do. If you have to tape every hole so be it. We have to do what's necessary to get the pipe right.
Now you can bring in that middle tenor!!
Hope this helps. Tuning a pipe takes practice just like playing the crazy thing. Maybe the new reeds will treat you better. Hope you are successful in the competition.

--Joe

piob_jadis · Post by **piob_jadis** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:48 am

Thank you, I will experiment with this as well.
However, drones are not at all my concern, I tune the chanter without them first, and never tune a reed that has not been warmed up and slightly moisturized, so there is very little different there.

Greg_in_London · Post by **Greg_in_London** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:02 pm

I'm not sure what to suggest now - what you are describing is not how I expect pipes to behave, so unless you have been unlucky with your reeds, it must be some peculiarity of the climate.

Hopefully David Siegel, who plays in the Middle East too, so I presume a similar climate, may have some more insight. He's not posted recently, but I think he still reads the posts.

piob_jadis · Post by **piob_jadis** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:45 pm

Thanks; an adjudicator and a friend helped me with a newer reed. I do come from a strange climate though!

Spitfirepiper · Post by **Spitfirepiper** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:22 pm

Nice, what competitions are there in the UAE? Any pictures?